Owner: We do not serve minors

Newton Street resident Tammi Long demands to know why her 16-year-old daughter supposedly was allowed into Charlie's Bar earlier this month and was drinking "with a bunch of friends, all underage." And she wants to know why police didn't take immediate action.
Norwalk Reflector Staff
Jul 25, 2010

Newton Street resident Tammi Long demands to know why her 16-year-old daughter supposedly was allowed into Charlie's Bar earlier this month and was drinking "with a bunch of friends, all underage."

And she wants to know why police didn't take immediate action.

"Even at my age, I'm ID'd everywhere," Long, 34, said.

Donna Rossman, who has run Charlie's Bar since August 1983, said there's no way Long's daughter made it inside her establishment July 6. Charlie's Bar has been in business since about 1933.

"We did not serve that girl," Rossman said defiantly. "No, we check IDs.

"Nobody served alcohol (to minors) and we have two security guys who check IDs," she said. "We don't serve underage. We catch them. We kick them out."

A person accused of serving or selling alcohol to a minor would be charged with sales underage. The first-degree misdemeanor is punishable by up to six months in jail and a maximum fine of $1,000.

"Obviously, if they are underage and not with a parent, it's illegal" to drink at a bar, Norwalk Police Chief Kevin Cashen said. "If we (can) make a case, we do so. If we can't make a case, we send someone in to make a (controlled underage) purchase."

Cashen said his officers have the option of doing their own investigation of juvenile-related alcohol complaints or submit it to the Ohio Investigative Unit, or doing both.

"We typically handle our own investigations," he said.

The chief noted it's not unusual to get complaints like Long's, about juveniles at Norwalk bars, but said those cases are difficult to prosecute if the family or juvenile don't cooperate.

Long said she found out about her daughter going to the Benedict Avenue bar after two women told her the girl had bruises on her face.

"They questioned her about it," Long said, and the girl accused "two grown women" of jumping her after she left work.

Long went to the intersection of East Elm Street and Woodlawn Avenue to pick up her daughter July 7, the night after she reportedly visited the bar.

"She knew at the time I knew about the drinking," Long said. She found the girl walking on East Elm.

"Her daughter did not want to go with her and said, 'I'll get another domestic violence (charge) if you don't leave me alone,'" Capt. Jack O'Neil wrote in his July 8 report. "Ms. Long then left her walking and went home, hoping she would come home."

She was located Friday in Mansfield by the Mansfield Police Department.

Since May 2006, police have made 10 underage consumption arrests at Charlie's, Cashen said. In the same time, there were two arrests on furnishing alcohol to underage persons.

Rossman calls her business "tight on security," saying her bouncers "are walking the floor all night." She said it's possible someone could have brought alcohol to a minor outside Charlie's Bar or that a minor snuck in while a bouncer was taking a bathroom break.

Charlie's bouncers are required to put large X's on people's hands if they are under 21, signifying they're not allowed to be served alcohol. Long said when her sister filled out a police report, O'Neil doubted her allegation that she had witnessed Charlie's bartenders serve alcohol to underage drinkers.

"I know Capt. O'Neil is following up," Cashen said.

"Dating back to January 2005, that establishment (Charlie's) had only one violation of underage consumption," said Tom Hunter, spokesman for the Ohio Department of Public Safety.

"Obviously, we would prefer that would be zero. But over the past 30-plus months there are no signs of problems with this establishment. The times we have been in to check we have found no problems."

Comments

???? (Anonymous)

sounds to me like the girl in ? is a troublemaker if she told her mother she was going to get another "domestic violence".Why was the girl picked up on the 7th in the evening if this happened on the 6th? sounds like alot of people sre out to get charlies bar. i bartended myself for about 5 years and i know the stunts that are pulled. ihave dealt with underagers trying to get someone to buy them alcohol as well as fake ids and just plain trying to use someone else's id. these kids will go to no end to get alcohol if they want it bad enough. most of the time that they enter a drinking establishment they are already drunk when they get there.where do they get it then. probably from home where they are permitted to drink with a parent!! the parent may not always be there when their child is dipping into the home stash. as far as i'm concerned even if a parent allows a child to drink that is contributing. the law is "YOU MUST BE 21 TO PURCHASE AND DRINK ALCOHOL" don't be so quick to blame your sins on someone else.

re:???? (Anonymous)

we already had this discussion. Parents, spouses and guardians can legally give their own underages alcohol.

re:???? (Anonymous)

She is a 16 year old teenager that wants to be grown up. Don't pass judgement when you only know half the story and you really don't know the person. What i am saying in a nice way is all of us have faults. Even you????

charlie's and r...

If we di didn't have charlie's and Rupp's
We wouldn't need all the cops we have, it would save alot on our city taxes.

Well... (Anonymous)

Any updates over the weekend? How did the bars and or cops do?

T$Robinson (Ano...

ok , we are way off the topic here .. lets stick to the facts .. the fact is it is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to drink , so why are they in any bar in the first place .. it shouldn't be the bartenders , or the bar owners fault if someone drives and hurts or kills anyone after they have been at their bar .. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PERSON to know when they have had enough !!and to stop at a reasonable time. also it is much more difficult now that there is a smoking ban in effect to keep people from sharing drinks , think about it . if you are standing outside to smoke, and you are drinking , the bar owner and the bartender can't see you , and you could be giving your drink to any munor ..it is time that everyone becomes accountable for their own actions !! and it is also time for people to stop trying to blame other people for their mistakes

Sitting in the ...

Reply to Rupp's......If people wouldn't go down there to get drunk or simply just stay home and drink it would be a lot less active down there. But think about it Us as tax payers pay them the same wage no matter how busy they are and they are stopping "most" of the drunk drivers of course they cant catch all of them theres simply to many bars. Plus were really not paying for there mistakes they are when they have to pay fines. I applaud the Norwalk Police Dept. for the wonderful job there doing believe me i monitor there freq. daily. So better luck next time

Sitting in the ...

T.Robinson.... Couldn't agree more

Re: T$Robinson ...

I never been to a bar that allowed me to take my alcohol outside its establishment. Unless its some thing new that bars are doing because of the smoking ban. I don't think bars should allow people to walk out the door with their alcohol. It is the responsibility of the person drinking to know when they had enough but it is also the responsibility of the owner to stop giving a person alcohol when they see the person doesn't seem to know what enough is because not every person that goes into a bar is responsible. The topic is bars serving alcohol to minors! Now that is something bars are doing and are not taking responsability for.

???? (Anonymous)

to T$ yes you can take your drinks outside the bar as long as there is some kind of patio area and i believe it has to have a fence with only one way in and out and that has to be through the establishment no outside access. also i believe it has to be at least 75 feet from the road. so anyone questioning the outside alcohol here it is. if the establishment does not have an area such as this, then your right the alcohol is not permitted outdoors. and for the one that atated we all have faults, your right including myself,but i can tell you that at 16 i was not trying to enter a bar and if i did my mother would have beat my a!@ and then called the cops herself. so don't give me this crap about a 16 yr old wanting to be a grownup and making a mistake, she needs to be dealt with as an adult if she choses to act so. now adays kids are out of control and some one is always making excuses for them and trying to blame someone else than where blame needs to be laid. this does not mean i blame all the parents because that is not always the case either. every scenario is different.

clue...as in ge...

Only some are focusing on the most important issue...the fact that a young female needs help. She ran away, was intoxicated, got in a fight and threatened her mother with domestic violence. For those that think Detention is the place for her your views are to antiquated. Is this someone you want around rapists, murders and drug dealers? our society is not the society of old where if kids don't listen they are locked away. This is the society where kids are committing crimes that rival adults. This young lady needed more discipline, but that is now a moot point. The only thing that is going to help now is therapy for her and her family. Let us not focus on what she did but why she did it. This is not behavior that appears at random in females. It is something that boils under the surface until it becomes sick of hiding. Why has this forum for intelligence turned in to ramblings of ignorance? I say ignorance and not stupidity because i can only hope that you do not know any better. I do however have two sidebars and while it may be contrary to my opening sentence I will deal with the backlash and cry myself to sleep.
1. I find alterego to be extremely knowledgable and have appreciated his/her attempts to educate some of you.
2. I appreciate norwalk police and feel safer because of them. I work in a high crime city with at risk youth. if you think your minor issues with youth "running" the streets is rough think about the fact that these kids are not carrying guns and shooting at your house. The stupidy of the talk about donuts and coffee is ridiculous. When was the last time you had to wonder if you were going to be assaulted at work or if you would come home to see your family at the end of the day. Put yourselves in their shoes before talking. Is it that stressful to hand a bag of food out of a drive-through window that you have to criticize some one else's job?

clue....as in g...

Only some are focusing on the most important issue...the fact that a young female needs help. She ran away, was intoxicated, got in a fight and threatened her mother with domestic violence. For those that think Detention is the place for her your views are to antiquated. Is this someone you want around rapists, murders and drug dealers? our society is not the society of old where if kids don't listen they are locked away. This is the society where kids are committing crimes that rival adults. This young lady needed more discipline, but that is now a moot point. The only thing that is going to help now is therapy for her and her family. Let us not focus on what she did but why she did it. This is not behavior that appears at random in females. It is something that boils under the surface until it becomes sick of hiding. Why has this forum for intelligence turned in to ramblings of ignorance? I say ignorance and not stupidity because i can only hope that you do not know any better. I do however have two sidebars and while it may be contrary to my opening sentence I will deal with the backlash and cry myself to sleep.
1. I find alterego to be extremely knowledgable and have appreciated his/her attempts to educate some of you.
2. I appreciate norwalk police and feel safer because of them. I work in a high crime city with at risk youth. if you think your minor issues with youth "running" the streets is rough think about the fact that these kids are not carrying guns and shooting at your house. The stupidy of the talk about donuts and coffee is ridiculous. When was the last time you had to wonder if you were going to be assaulted at work or if you would come home to see your family at the end of the day. Put yourselves in their shoes before talking. Is it that stressful to hand a bag of food out of a drive-through window that you have to criticize some one else's job?

you people (Ano...

I personnally don't like Charlie's...but they are not responsible for that crash...that driver chose to get behind the wheel, you are in the wrong chat room for those comments..and if serving an intoxicated person is illegal, why aren't all the bars closed! Some of you sound so....ignorant.

re:???? (Anonymous)

You said and I quote "you can take your drinks outside the bar as long as there is some kind of patio area and i believe it has to have a fence with only one way in and out and that has to be through the establishment no outside access. also i believe it has to be at least 75 feet from the road." So if that is the case, I am assuming that the 16 yr old got the alcohol inside the bar because Charlies does not have a fenced patio area?

T$Robinson (Ano...

to "clue..as in get one" you are almost correct in your assesment in your view of this situation , but you have a few wrong turns in getting there. its true that one of the important facts in the story is the teen age girl who got herself into alot of trouble in this situation. But , you say " she needs help" wrong! she broke several laws and totally mistreated her mother , she needs correction , not some psycological help .. you yourself say that she " ran away , got intoxicated , got in a fight , and threatened her mother with domestic violence " this is definately a girl that needs correction , and i do feel that the detention center is the perfect place for this juv. delinquint..she absolutely needs to be around "rapists ,murderers, and drug dealers" maybe they will show her where her life is headed and scare the evil out of her and teach her to behave herself , and to respect her mother..i am so tired of bleeding hearts who cry for the criminal .. waaaa they had a bad mother, waa they had a rough childhood .. get over it .. everyone i know had some tough obsticles to overcome , and most of them have been successful in doing so because they were forced to deal with the "real world" and the real world that this criminal and trouble maker has created for herself is the detention center .. it might do her a world of good

STOP letting ki...

this girl is getting some help at this time, but we all need to look into the fact that the bars in this town are still letting in under age kids. this is not just one moms problem but for alot of parents that my not even know. STOP LETTING KIDS DRINK!!!!!!!!!!! and if they don't then they should not be opened.

??? (Anonymous)

re: a previous comment, i may be mistaken but didn't the girl come into the bar drunk? i am not familiar with norwlk bars, never been in any of them so did not know whether there was a patio area or not. there are many different scenerios that could happen in a situation like this and we all know that we probably will never know how it really came about. so what will happen will be that the easiest person/place will be blamed. T$ i have to agree with you about this child. everyone has had it hard at one point in there life and life is full of choices even at 16. you "choose" the path that you take and face the music for your actions. you see the world pretty cut and dry like myself. stop making excuses and punish them for their crimes if therapy is needed they can get that while being punished.

You are missing...

Yes the girl is troubled and she might have been drunk before entering the bar. But that does not make it ok to let her in the bar and serve her alcohol. Yes this girl seems to need a lot of help. A family member wrote a comment saying that she has been to detention before. This girl seems to be in trouble with the law and can't seem to make the right choices. The parent isn't blaiming the bar for her childs problems. The parent is simply letting the bar no she will not tolerate the bar serving her daughter alcohol. If you were this childs parent and you were having the same problems wouldn't you do whatever possible to help your kid. The parent might not be able to control her daughters actions but at least she is trying the best she can to make it impossible for her to get alcohol at local bars such as Charlie's. I pretty sure if ur child was drinking at a bar or somebodys house you would do something about it too! Unless you approve of underage drinking like some parents. Just because the law states that you can give your own child alcohol under your supervision doesn't mean it's OK. No wonder our country is so out of wack.

???? (Anonymous)

i agree!!!!! if this girl ws served in tis bar then someone was not doing their job,but......if she was not served in the bar then someone is being attacked for no reason and someones livlyhood could be ruined because of it. this child needs help alright.

AGE (Anonymous)

the girl is 16 why was she let into the bar

Humanoid (Anonymous)

Rupps, Charlies & TJ's are my 2nd favorite bars in Norwalk.

All the other bars are tied for first.

A friend of mine went to Rupps the other night. She said to me 'I've never seen so many pregnant woman drinking in my life'.

Outstanding. No wonder that dude pulled the hottest chick in town running a joint like that.

Thinking (Anonymous)

This is a sad time for the good people in Norwalk. Bars let people over drink and then they die, let under age and kids into drink, and now we know that even the whores of Norwalk are starting there kids out early. So when they turn 16 these bars will all ready know them. SAD TIME WE LIVE IN!!!!!

Thanking (Anonymous)

Thinking it’s so simple for the intoxicated citizens of Norwalk to put the responsibility on the parents or on the Brants for drinking too much. We ought to start looking at the bars that don't ID and just keep supplying more drinks to an individual that already had more then they should. This is the business they decide to open, and should be held responsible for their part in it. If you are a bar owner you need to know what is going on in your establishment or you need to be closed down. These are people’s lives that you are playing with. We have two families that lives are changed because of this bar owner not doing her job the right way. There are even more families out there that lives are being affected by these places that we have not heard from. As the 16 year old had under age friends with her. What else is going to happen for this town to wake up and see that this bar is not more important then are kids and a person’s life? What has this world come to when going out and having a place like this to party in is more important then this individualizes life and the future of our kids? These are our children and what type of parents would we be if we just sit back and say its ok for an establishment like this to do as they please, and put the blame all on to the parents that maybe doing a good job to start with. Kids will do what ever they think they can pull off and we all know that once some individualizes start to drink they my not know when to stop as their judgment is effected by the alcohol. That is when the owner or employees need to step up and do their jobs or as I said before not be opened. I would think that life is more significant then a bar. Business like this should not be able to corrupt are youth. If this establishment was doing it job then a 16 year old girl would not have been able to enter the door. Charlie’s and all these other establishments that think it is “OK “to corrupt are young adults (under age) we need to show them that the parents of this town will not stand by and let it be done. There is more places that adults can party in lives can not be replaced and the time that is token away from a family with their loved ones can not be given back. Is there not already too many alcoholic’s in this town why would the bars need the business of are kids?

???? (Anonymous)

part of being an adult is making your own decsions and taking responsibility for your actions. michael brant is gone and i just think that bringing his name into this article is so wrong on your part. there has been enough talk and controversy over his accident already. let him R.I.P. this article is about a 16 year old child address that problem at hand. i can see both sides of the fence on this one. i am a mother of 3 and i have been on the other side of the bar and was for 5 yrs. i would be furious if my daughter was in a bar at 16, but on the other hand as the bartender i would be furious that a 16 yr old is out and in my bar during my shift. sometimes it takes a while to realize when someone is in the bar that should not be. if your busy or it's crowded it takes a little time. i also know that a little time is all it takes and that is no excuse for a minor being able to obtain alcohol in the bar. as a mom my arguement would be that if you I.D. GREAT but was this girl carded? certainly a 16 yr old does not look that old that she isn't questionable. i know teens don't look their age these days but we are talking looking 5-7 yrs older I DON'T THINK SO !!! as a bartender my arguement would be hey she came in drunk took me some time to realize she was there did someone else purchase her the alcohol and what the hell is she doing in here anyway. i would have called the cops and detained her until they came. it's really a hard spot to be in if you have never been in it. i had a young man come in one time and i carded him(which i already knew he was underage) when he gave me his id it was someone else totally. different name, picture whole 9 yards. bad part about it was that the kid in the picture looked nothing like him not even same hair color . i kept the id and refused to return it and called the sheriff, well the boy fled before the sheriff got there i believe he had been drinking before he entered our bar, so if something would have happened to him who would you blame? me because he was last seen in my establishment? plenty of people knew he was there and the sheriff actually knew who he was anyway so that helped me out. so see i think that everything can be so cut and dry all the time.

???? (Anonymous)

my last line is supposed to say i DONT think everything is always so cut and dry. didn't want to confuse anyone.

GET READY - 1s...

Next weekend will be the weekend to stay at home since it's the first of the month and well basically we know who will be at Charlies and Rupps -- W-E-L-F-A-R-E -- Typically I chose not to go out in Norwalk on the first weekend of the month due to the fact that most of the people that go out this weekend only get out once a month and it's usually a weekend of fighting and nonsense. Also not to mention I don't enjoy seeing people who do nothing enjoy a night out at my expense. So EVERYONE BEWARE DO NOT GO TO CHARLIES OR RUPPS NEXT WEEKEND!!! If you do -- don't say you weren't warned.

re:get ready (A...

this is very funny! but true!there are a couple in Monroeville,[i know i'm getting sidetracked here].The husband & wife are so lazy,they have 4 kids & neither one of them work.They rely on the good ole' taxpayer's to support them.But they alway's seem to have cigs to smoke!Their septic system leaks above the ground,when I'm visiting my friends nearby it smells so disgusting!The poor neighbors can't even open any of their windows on that side or in the back of their own house,if they do their house will smell like a giant portapotty!Any idea's what these neighbors can do to get this fixed?If anyone knows of anything please let me know, I will pass it on! Thanks.

re:re:get ready...

Hello! Call the Huron Co. Health Dept.

T$Robinson (Ano...

to, ????... thank you for making alot of sense.. it is shameful that anyone bring the Brant's into this story .. let them grieve in peace , this article is about a 16 year old girl , and that she refuses to take responsibility for her own actions , and is trying to blame the bartender , and the bar owner for her inappropriate behavior , shame on her and her mother for trying to pass the buck ! everyone must be responsible for their own actions .. period . being a bartender is a hard enough job as it is , they can not be everyone's babysitter and doctor , and toxicoligist !!they are trying to do their job , which is to serve drinks and make a good atmosphere in the bar, for everyone's enjoyment!! if they were to deliberately sell drinks to a totally drunk person , that would be wrong , but i have never seen any bartender do that , usually the bar tender will try to convince them to call a cab ! if we are going to go with the mindset , that the owner and servers are responsible for our actions , please let me know .. i went to "Ryan's" all you can eat buffet last week , and they allowed me to really overeat , and stuff myself .. i gained 5 pounds and can't fit into my pants at this time !! i didn't realize that i could blame them for allowing me to do that !! i had better get a good lawyer , fast !!!

Fed up! (Anonymous)

First of all to comment on the underage drinking or bars serving to underage. Maybe if the bars had two people at the entrances that I.D people and no one under the age of 21 was allowed in and if someone under that age was in that establishment, then the fault would lay on the two people at the door.Also, if they were to make the law to where the people at the doors were to get charged and give them jail time behind it, it might put a little fear into them to where they would think twice about letting someone under the age of 21 in.
I also feel as though, if the parents in norwalk wouldnt turn a blind eye to what their children are doing, Then we probably wouldnt have so many problems and if the law wouldnt have stripped the parents of there right alot of this mess that is going on wouldnt be goin on! Such as by whopping your child that is now child abuse, the schools ,the courts, and the police will tell the children that if there parents put there hands on them to call the police. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG! Also if the juvenille courts didnt have it set up to where when the child gets in trouble and gets a fine, and neglects to pay it then the parent goes to jail not the child.That is not teaching the child anything! True enough, i understand that the parents are responsible for their children, but we are not responsible for their actions. If the consequences were to fall on the children that are in trouble, there probably wouldnt be so many children in trouble.
As far as the commments on Michael Brant. He was a good guy, Obviously liked to have a little fun. I think that this has nothing to do with the underage drinking in the bars.This shouldnt be even in this story. Let him RIP.
As far as the teenager at hand, i know her too. She does have alot of problems, she is abusive to her mother, Shes had alot of run ins with the police, but it is not the mothers fault.If this girl would have had a good old fashioned butt whoopin, she probably wouldnt be how she is today. The girl needs counciling, supervision, and most of all GOD in her life. We as parents with troubled children need to stick together.Good luck to all parents who have teenagers!

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