Norwalk school levy fails

District asked for 1.25% income tax replacement.
Norwalk Reflector Staff
Nov 5, 2013

Voters in the Norwalk City Schools district shoot down the levy request, 1,873 to 1,422.

Look for the full story in Wednesday's Norwalk Reflector.

Comments

AEversole

25.00$ a month it would havecost you cheap ignorant fools... you are destroying a all ready desamated district..I am glad my son doesn't go to norwalk or Perkins for that matter.. all people care about is greed and money, at the expence of of children's future

TheLegend

I'd pay $25 a month so you could take an English course......

44846GWP

Lol!!

keystone

Cast the first stone...Let me reply to several of your comments which you undoubtedly have not researched.

1) The full benefits that teachers are provided at retirement are provided with the money that each teacher has contributed and also the investments that the retirement account has made. The benefits are constatntly decreasing as the money has not kept of with increased costs. Deductibles for health insurance are rising. New retirees are NOT getting a cost of living raise for 5 years and it is rumored that future retirees may do away with COLAS for good. Even social security gets a small COLA each year.

2) The reirement age has increased so that teachers can no longer retire at age 55. They must have 35 years experience AND be age 60. That seems to be in line with social security.

3) The amount the teachers must contribute to their retirement is being increased each year. They are now putting in 11% and will increase by 1% each till they pay in a maximum of 15%. How many taxpayers put in 15% of their income into a 401 or tax sheltered account.

4) The age and benefits you are talking about is NOT in the contract, that is state law.

5) If you want to complain about the benefits and retirement age, then you better start picking on ALL state and federal employees. (Law enforcement, postal workers, turnpike workers, county and city employees,etc). Several of these groups, the workers can retire earlier than teachers and the benefits are even better.

Ehovemom

Thank you for clarifying this for those who did not know. It is time to stop blaming the workers. Teachers, auto workers and more do not enjoy the pension and retirement benefits that former generations had. Everyone has had to sacrifice.

Ehovemom

x

hellohere.....

I think that it stinks that the voters can't see that Norwalk needs a levy passed. It's sad that the sports fees will go up again, and possibly the Art and Music programs might be cut. That's sad because Norwalk has great programs for the students, and now some of these great programs will have to be cut.

teiwaz

You need to take into account the what-most-people-don't-know-about-the-state-sticking-it-to-you costs of any new or renewal levy. The state is no longer picking up the homestead exemption portion of any tax increase resulting from a levy passage. This means the full amount of this tax increase is now coming out of your pocket. So, to everyone who voted for the passage of a levy on November 5, your taxes just went up even more.

keystone

It seems that everyone wants the state to give the schools more money. I too would like to see that but there is one thing we don't stop and think about. Where is the state going to get that money to give the schools.

To get more money, the state is going to have to raise our taxes. I guarantee that the amount they raise the tax would be more than the 1.25% the schools were asking for. On top of that everyone would have to pay the tax to the state, not just the working.

The 1.25% the schools were asking for would not really be the full 1.25%. The state has reduced the state tax for this year. By taking into account the present state tax, the 1.25% would actually be reduced because some of that you would've been paying to state before it was reduced.

I only hope the state doesn't end up taking over NCS. If they do, they will cut EVERYTHING that is not required by the state. That means, bussing, sports, arts & music, will be cut. This will eventually affect the value of our homes if this goes on long enough. The tax payers are only hurting themselves if they continue to vote no.I know, I have witnessed in other districts.

I don't have any kids in school but still feel that we should support our children of Norwalk. Somebody sacrificed to support you when you were in school. I'm sure money was just as tight back then when you needed support. Where would you be today if the taxpayers hadn't sacrificed back then to give you an education. YOU PROBABLY WOULDn'T BE ABLE TO READ THIS without that high paying teacher.

truckin

"Everyone would have to pay the extra taxes, not just the working"?? and just where do you think the non working is going to get the money to pay anything??? Simply put... a very large percentage of this community is what they call a NON LIABILITY VOTER. no skin in the game, as some may call it. So NO, not everyone will pay, property tax goes up, landlord raises rent.. BUT IF YOU DON"T EVEN PAY YOUR OWN RENT, doesn't matter, have another child and then can qualify for an even bigger place. Even low income people have been convinced they work and see money takin' out of the check, that they contribute???.. NO.. SORRY.. when you receive more on the back side plus rent deductions, school lunch, earned credit, and everything else down the pike. You become a NON LIABILITY VOTER.

keystone

If you look at the delinquent taxes in Norwalk, there are several who must feel that they don't have to pay their share. I realize that there are some who just can't afford it. I truly feel sorry for those people and wish they could avoid it. Let the ones that can afford it pay and help those that can't out.

If there was a way to collect all deinquent property taxes, Norwalk would not have had to put any tax on the ballot.

If the state increases the taxes to help the schools, everyone who has an income must pay. That is unless you get your tax basis down to a nontaxable income. There would be no way of being delinquent.

For the NON LIABILITY VOTER..this tax wouldv've benefited them as they probably would not have had to pay any earned income tax. As far as property tax, everyone pays as the landlord passes the tax on in terms of rent increase. If the taxpayer is one of the NON LIABILTY VOTERS as you suggest I feel that it is my responsibility to pay my share and help them out.

truckin

1sr. "those who can pay should" (i agree) "those who can't should be helped"? WHAT? did it ever occur where there money went. Up there nose? Tattoo's? Wide screen? and as far as you feel you should pay yours and others. You ARE the PROBLEM. If people stopped feeling like they have to help, maybe... JUST MAYBE people will learn to take care of themselves again one day.

keystone

I meant those that cannot pay because of circumstances beyond their control. That is unemployment, disability, etc.

Those that waste money on things you mentioned should be held accountable. Also, I have no sympathy on the unemployed who sponge off the public and do not attempt to find a job.

If you have done everything within your power to improve yourself, I don't mind trying to help.. For the deadbeats on drugs, etc and wasting their money, don't ask.. I have no pity on them.

keystone

re: benefits to retired teachers.

For those of you who think that the benfits of retired teachers are so great, let me inform you what they really are.

I am NOT a teacher but have friends and relatives who are so I can state what the benfits are.

1) Teachers' incomes are drastically reduced. They are NOT making the big bucks everyone thinks they are after they retire. As I stated previously, their income is based on what they contribute which is 15% in a few years. Again, how many tax payers contrubute 15% to their retirement?

2)The health insurance can run as high as $1000 for retiree and spouse. If there are children involved, then it could be higher. The duductible is also higher than most.

3) Autoworkers continue to get huge discounts on autos when they retire. Does the taxpayer ever complain about the high cost of autos because of this benefit or the high wages that executives and auto workers make? I haven't seen anyone on here complain about that.

Before you complain about teacher's wages and benefits, why is it that the teaching profession has such a high burnout rate. If the benefits were that good, I would think maybe everyone would try and get into it to get these benefits.

I'm sure the schools would like your expertise and knowledge if you would like to help them out. After all, maybe you could get one of these high paying jobs.

How many does the average teacher have to keep satisfied? (Students, principals, school board, supt., parents, taxpayers.) That to me seems a lot more than the average worker has to satisfy. They usually have only the boss to satisfy. There is no way a teacher or administator can satisfy all those people and make them all happy so a levy can pass.

If the new board makes cuts, what then are you going to complain about unless it's the cuts you didn't want to see made.

kURTje

Ehovemom your 9:34 post rings true. I'm sure you voted. Sadly 26% of Huron County voted. We get the government we deserve. ALL must sacrifice.

Sarrak

One of the problems in passing any levy is the misinformation put forth by supporters of the levy.
First, The superintendents of the various schools and many of the other school administrators are the highest paid public employees in the county. Instead of concealing that fact perhaps supporters should try to find some justification for this situation.
Second, teachers and many other school employees are part time and do not work the 2040 hours a year that many full-time public employees work. Consequently, unless hourly wage rates are published whether or not teachers are grossly overpaid cannot easily be determined. The average wage earner can better evaluate the levy request if accurate wage information is provided.
Third, the misinformation continues after the election. Teachers and school administrators like all other public employees have one-half of their retirement contribution deducted from their wages and the other half paid by the employers. Superintendents sometimes have their own special deal whereby the employer pays all of the retirement cost and none is deducted from their pay.
Fourth, honesty is always the best policy here. Failure to make honest disclosures will doom future levy-s as well.
Fifth, the voters are not fools - this levy was not for the kids. The ehove levy which clearly was for the kids passed.

keystone

re: "teachers are part-time". How can you honestly make that statement. My father was a teacher (not in Norwalk) and I witnessed him doing school work (grading papers, making out tests & worksheets, making out grades) long after school hours (sometimes till 11:00 at night). He never complained about the extra hours. Most teachers don't. If you add all the hours outside of school I would bet you'd be surprised how many hours a teacher actually puts in.

A teacher is also expected to attend school functions such as open house, sporting events to support the students, etc. Open houses are actually a farce because the parents who complain here and need to see the teacher don't show at open houses.

Also, you'd be surprised how much a teacher spends out of his/her pocket and gives to the kids. I have witnessed teachers give students money for lunches, yearbooks, clothes etc. and never complain or ask for anything. Often times I have witnessed teachers give up their own lunch to feed a student who didn't have it for that day. They are not asking for publicity, just not to be attacked by the public.

You complain about having retirement put in by the district. There are a lot of companies that matches an employees contributions to a 401. That is the same thing. Also, this retirement paid by the district is mandated by the state. if you don't like it, go to Columbus, don't hold that against the district.

Norwalk's supt. is treated like the teachers as far as retirement contributions. Norwalk does not pay for all of his retirement as you suggest.

Lastly, if this levy was not for the kids, who was it for. How can you say that Ehove's was for the kids and not Norwalk's. They are both levy's.

If you look at the administrator's and supt salsry, they are comparable to any CEO of any company.

dswwtp

@keystone - sarrak loves to toot that "teachers only work part-time" horn.

Sarrak

All I can say here is don't take my word on teachers are part-time check the pay records on teachers and other part-timers pay. They are available just look at them for the facts. Those records will show that teachers work considerably less that the 2040 hours/yr that full time public employees work. That is why every time a citizen brings up the issue of hourly rates the supporters cringe and change the subject. Second, I said some superintendents have the whole retirement paid not all superintendents. Christie Lane has that deal going for theirs and when that was done it was asserted that it was common for Norwalk, South Central, Western Reserve, and others. Again the pay records will answer that question. I did not complain about the employer paying half of the retirement. It's just that the levy supporters asserted and continue to assert that the employees pay the entire contribution themselves which is contrary to the facts. There are many other reasons that Norwalk's is the only levy in the county that failed but until the supporters get their collective heads out of the sand or someplace closer and warmer the levies will continue to fail.

Sarrak

The salaries of the Superintendent and administrators are substantially higher than: Elected public employees with equivalent education and appointed public employees with equivalent education. If the Indiana plan is adopted in Ohio those salaries for elected Public Employees with equivalent education would be a ceiling for superintendents in that particular county. Superintendents are not employees of a private company they are public employees paid with taxpayer money. Lastly the voters are not fools - when the last levy passed teachers and employees got the money not the kids.

sport24728

Clueless!

Dr. Information

What I find truly amazing is some are totally against any more local taxes, because it has a direct effect on their paycheck, yet these same people (mainly liberals) want increased taxes on the federal level, as long as they don't feel the brunt.

Flat tax across the board. The answer.

ThomasJefferson

Keystone...Teachers are paid for every function they are required to attend. If they attend sporting events, maybe they enjoy them, maybe they are there to support students-but they are there by their own choice. Why does everyone want to think the teachers are being attacked when a levy fails? Maybe the public just can't afford another penny out of their already dwindling pockets.

keystone

If teachers are paid to attend every function then why is it that they have to pay to get into any event that charges a fee.

Where do you get your information that teachers are paid to attend this function. They are required by contract to attend such functions as open houses, parent teacher conferences.

If look at the comments are here, teachers are being attacked. Almost every comment states about their high wages.

If you look at how much is costs a teacher to get the courses required in order to keep his job, I don't think the salary is out of line. What other public employee is required to take course every couple of years to satisfy stae mandates. A doctor is the only one that i know of and he gets paid $120 for a 20 minute visit. Teacher's sure don't make that kind of money.

Also, compute how much per hour you pay for a mechanic for your car or to have something fixed at your house, I guarantee you most teacher's aren't making that per hour when you take into account all the hours spent outside the classroom attending these functions that are required or doing extra work for the next day's class.

Sarrak

First, I am not sure that teachers are being attacked specifically for their high wages.
Second, teachers and other school employees are public employees not private employees like Auto Mechanics, Doctors, Home Repairers, etc. The deal for public employees has always been great benefits, job security, job stability, and lower wages than the private sector.
Third, somehow the education system nationwide has decided that it wants the benefits of public employment but not the burdens. That is why there are at least 2 (the Nebraska plan and the Indiana plan) ideas to fix this problem.
Fourth, Teachers and other School Employees are the beneficiaries of the current system but not the cause of it. They are not being attacked the education system is and I am sure some sort of reform is imminent.
Fifth, if you really want a handle on this problem talk to any county employee not connected with the schools. The County has to provide all of their services on the scraps left of the property tax once the schools loot it.
Last, many other public employees,(Judges, Prosecutors, Public Defenders, Deputies, Elected officials, Social Workers,Engineers, etc., are required to take additional courses and education for their jobs - this situation is hardly unique to Teachers.

Pages